Early years wooden propeller

[Shullc]

I have an early year wooden propeller I found in my dad’s basement. It is 102 inches in length and has Spa 200 stamped on it. Unfortunately don’t have have paperwork with it and just looking for what it possibly came off and around what year.

[Mtskull]

I’m not sure if the stamped markings are enough to positively identify your propeller (are there any more, possibly obscured?)
That said, everything that is visible so far appears to be consistent with one of these: https://woodenpropeller.com/SPAD%20XI.html

[Dbahnson]

I think Mtskull is correct. The left hand thread is a little unusual but that's also consistent with the geared engine on the SPAD XI, which reverses the rotation from the right hand rotating engine.

I would look very closely at the rest of the hub, and you might even find decals obscured on the blades. Be careful not to damage the finish in any way while you look, as it will substantially decrease any value as a collectible. See this link.

[pmdec]

Hi,

Ok for a SPAD XI prop, but not a Gallia which have the blades "protruding" above the hub . Possibly a Chauviere serial 2321 or an Eclair serial 50: a picture taken exactly perpendicularly could tell. A measure of the blade width and the hub thickness could help. And a picture of the 2 other sides of the hub.

Regards,
PM

Post edited for total bullshit of the first version ...

[Shullc]

I cleaned it off a bit more and did find more numbers and will post the pics but list what I think they say also. On the same side as where it says spa 200 it also says Hs and N1. On the area the bolts go through it has a number 14510

[Dbahnson]

Well, the "Hs" typically refers to "Hisso", short for Hispano Suiza, which is the engine used on the SPAD XI (and many other aircraft of that era). I'm not sure what the "N1" refers to but maybe PMdec will know. The most accurate confirmation would come from the "Serie" number which is usually stamped on the hub.

[Shullc]

Pics of the additional number I found.

[pmdec]

Hi,

The place where the markings are stamped is important, so it would be easier to find what is "N1" if I can see where it is stamped. Possibly, it is not "N1" but "Nf", and in this case the writing is perpendicular to the other markings and on the same side that "Spa" and "Hs 200". The "14510" on a flat side of the hub has to be the prop number (except on Chauviere props). It has to be also stamped on the opposite side that Spa and Hs 200 and just above 14510 (or the prop number on Chauviere), there is the serial number and under 14510 one letter, "1" or "2" and the SFA stamp (a small square about 8 to 10 mm).

If the "N" is written perpendicular to Spa, it is the marking for the wood used (Nf = Noyer de France / French walnut).

Regards,
PM

Added some example of what to expect to see on a not repaired Chauviere of the period 1916-1919.

P (5)_cr_txt.jpg

- On a "lateral" side of the hub:
--- aircraft name [Sop for Sopwith, Spa for SPAD, Nie for Nieuport, ...]
--- engine maker and power [Cl 130 for Clerget 130 HP, Hs 200 for Hispano-Suiza 200 HP, Rn 300 for Renault 300 HP, ...]
--- perpendicularly, the wood used to make the prop [Nf for French walnut, At for "tabasco" mahogany (Acajou tabasco in French, H or He for beech (hetre in French), ...
--- for "late" props, the type of glue [Ce RV for casein, ...]

P (7)_txt.jpg

- On the opposite side of the hub:
--- serial number [SERIE 2328]
--- prop number [No 51222]
--- code for the prop constructor, SFA stamp and one or two letters or a digit for the controller. [ D1 for Chauviere workshop in Lyon, R1 for Paris Regy workshop, H1 for Eclair, ...]


P (6)_txt.jpg

On one of the flat sides:
--- a 5 digits number: I don't know what it is...
--- some indecipherable digits
--- the glue date: day and month [september first]. No year before 1919.

On other brands, a repetition of the prop number, and of the serial number on Eclair.

[Shullc]

Ok I think I have included what you need. I’m old so also zoomed in on it to see it better. It appears it is a Nf and is perpendicular to Spa. I drew an arrow to where the 5 digit number is and then zoomed in on that number on the next photo. I could be missing something still but I think I finally got everything.

[Dbahnson]

I'm assuming there are no decals under that alligatored varnish. Sometimes they get obscured by the finish, although I would expect that you would have still seen them.

[Shullc]

I don’t see any other numbers.

[Mtskull]

Putting together all the information, I think we can be agreed that this propeller is made of French walnut (Nf) and is applicable to a 200hp Hispano-Suiza (Hs) engine installed in a SPAD (Spa).

Further to the above, the wood used and the French designation (Nf) would appear to strongly suggest a French manufacturer and the 200hp engine suggests SPAD S.Xll or Xlll.

[pmdec]

Putting together all the information, I think we can be agreed that this propeller is made of French walnut (Nf) and is applicable to a 200hp Hispano-Suiza (Hs) engine installed in a SPAD (Spa).

Further to the above, the wood used and the French designation (Nf) would appear to strongly suggest a French manufacturer and the 200hp engine suggests SPAD S.Xll or Xlll.

Hi,

I think you may add it is a Chauviere, from the 5 digits number on the flat side of the hub: to my knowledge, there are only 3 French brands which have the "look" of the third pic of the first post: Chauviere, Eclair and Gallia. Only Chauviere uses a prop number incremented for each prop made independently of the serial: Eclair ans Gallia use a prop number starting at 1 for each serial., and it is not possible they made thousands of one serial (the only French prop produced at more than ten thousand is the Ratier serial 34 for Breguet 14). So it can be only a Chauviere... but 11342 is not the prop number of this Chauviere. Its prop number is probably in the 51xxx or 52xxx range (I suspect the 5 digits number on a flat side of the hub of Chauviere is a number started at 1 when Chauviere began to make propellers in Lyon, when the prop number of those made in Paris was around 40xxx).

The other way to know the brand would be if Shullc post two pics of the whole prop: one exactly from front, and one exactly from side. From front, the Gallia differ from Eclair and Chauviere by comparing the trailing edges. And Eclair and Chauviere differ by the place where the blade is larger, and by the lengthier lamination (trailing edge for Chauviere and central for Eclair).

On the joined pic, there is a Chauviere 2228, an Eclair 17 and a Gallia 32, this one flipped to look like a right handed.

D?coupes_Chauv-?cl_Gal_Lines&Arr_800px.jpg

Regards,
PM

[Dbahnson]

Thank you, PM. That's a nice illustration of why people can't accurately identify a propeller just by its visible shape, particularly if they claim it must be from a particular make and model aircraft. Even the manufacturer can be hard to identify by shape alone.