Barn find propeller

[Dbahnson]

Yes, that's the Levasseur decal:

levasseur2.jpg

[Robert Lundin]

Thank you all for some very detailed and interesting information on this propeller. I am the happy, new custodian of it and have cleaned it and goven it a bit tender care. The amount of dust, dirt, oil et cetera was quite considerable and had hidden remnants of the logotype which seems to prove the propller's maker, as written in the above.

[pmdec]

.../... Is this a photo of the 18CV Hydroglisseur? It bears a very strong resemblance to the previous illustration.

Hi,
It is only when I want to quote you that I see there was a link to a picture in your post. The pic doesn't appear on the thread from my place. I just repeat your link there:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wJHaE6rJkG11n2cVA

It seems to be a bigger "boat" and the engine is not an Anzani, perhaps an Hispano-Suiza with a prop attached to the crankshaft.

Postcards are often not reliable, but the one I posted seems to be made by (/for) the company, so the label have to be right.

Regards,
PM

[Oceandriver]

I am eternally grateful to you for your expertise in the French history of this propeller, and a huge thank you to the other contributers too.
I will look into other collected forums and see if there is any group that collects this sort of memorabilia.
If it sells, of course I'd make a donation to the site. I would have learnt nothing without your combined expertise.
Anyone even got a remote idea of value I should look for with this? I think it now has excellent provenance.

[Mtskull]

For what it’s worth, I think all of the above is spot on.
Is this a photo of the 18CV Hydroglisseur? It bears a very strong resemblance to the previous illustration.

[pmdec]

I am now becoming slightly confused as to where we have got to with this propeller!
Can we agree on certain aspects of what we know so far and draw fair conclusions?

1) The propeller is French made by the Levasseur company
2) Date of manufacture around 1925
3) Markings suggest it was commissioned or owned by the Dumond-Galvin Company who were in business at this time.
4) The above company specialised in development and production of "Hydrogliders." Boats driven by above surface aircraft type propellers
5) It is most likely this propeller was used in this or similar applications by the above company or Clement Galvin himself. .../...

Yes, I think all 5 are right. And, I think also the attached postcard (whole and partial scans) is the cherry on the cake (): the "18 CV" is probably the one using your prop...

I have no advice about a price, but I think this thread can contribute for a higher price for you, so, when you'll sell it, think about a small donation to Dave who mades this site running (see http://woodenpropeller.com/forumvB/showthread.php?t=702 )!

Regards,
PM

[Dbahnson]

I am now becoming slightly confused as to where we have got to with this propeller!
Can we agree on certain aspects of what we know so far and draw fair conclusions?

1) The propeller is French made by the Levasseur company
2) Date of manufacture around 1925
3) Markings suggest it was commissioned or owned by the Dumond-Galvin Company who were in business at this time.
4) The above company specialised in development and production of "Hydrogliders." Boats driven by above surface aircraft type propellers
5) It is most likely this propeller was used in this or similar applications by the above company or Clement Galvin himself.

If you agree or disagree to those comments, please let me know. If I am on the right lines, does this detail make the propeller of some historical interest and would it have some value.
I'd appreciate advice on selling it on to someone who could best appreciate it.

I think your conclusions are fairly accurate and that the prop was most likely used on one of the vehicles shown on the stock certificate that PMdec posted:



If that's the case, I wouldn't consider this particularly "collectible" to this group, whose main interest is aircraft propellers. But there may be a group of airboat enthusiasts to whom this would be particularly collectible, but I don't know.

[Oceandriver]

I am now becoming slightly confused as to where we have got to with this propeller!
Can we agree on certain aspects of what we know so far and draw fair conclusions?

1) The propeller is French made by the Levasseur company
2) Date of manufacture around 1925
3) Markings suggest it was commissioned or owned by the Dumond-Galvin Company who were in business at this time.
4) The above company specialised in development and production of "Hydrogliders." Boats driven by above surface aircraft type propellers
5) It is most likely this propeller was used in this or similar applications by the above company or Clement Galvin himself.

If you agree or disagree to those comments, please let me know. If I am on the right lines, does this detail make the propeller of some historical interest and would it have some value.
I'd appreciate advice on selling it on to someone who could best appreciate it.

[Mtskull]

No problem. 👍

[pmdec]

Judging by the photographs in the article to which I posted the link, I would say that 2 metres diameter fits very well into the size range of early airboat propellers.

For avoidance of any misunderstanding, I used the word “Airboat” not to mean a flying boat but as a translation of “bateau a helice” i.e. a boat driven by a propeller that works in air.

Hi,

OK! Very sorry for the misunderstanding by me! So, we agree about the use of Oceandriver prop!
Please, excuse me for the inopportune rebuke in my last post...

Regards,
PM

[Mtskull]

Judging by the photographs in the article to which I posted the link, I would say that 2 metres diameter fits very well into the size range of early airboat propellers.

For avoidance of any misunderstanding, I used the word “Airboat” not to mean a flying boat but as a translation of “bateau a helice” i.e. a boat driven by a propeller that works in air.

[pmdec]

Hi,

QUOTE=Mtskull;17849]I think you will find that the use of the term “glider” in this context is down to a mistranslation of the word “glisseur” and that this is definitely an early airboat propeller.[/QUOTE][Bold by me]

No, this prop can't be for an airboat: it is way too short! And, at second sight, it was marked right and 18HP was the power absorbed by the prop*: From Oceandriver pics, the bolts circle is only 110 mm and the central hole 46 mm which are the measures for A type hub, the smaller one, used with low power engine. And these measures with 8 bolt holes are the same used on 30 HP "rouleur" planes of the end of WW1 (for example, Ratmanoff serials LA and YA have these measures).

We may have a definitive answer if Oceandriver measures the pitch: I suppose it is very low (between 0.4 and 0.8 metres**), and associated with a relativly large blade width, it would be perfect for a speed between 30 and 60 km/h.

* Small prop used at low speed have a very low efficiency and can't deliver only a small part of the engine power.
** Higher if the prop was geared!

Regards,
PM

[Oceandriver]

Thank you.
I did think the glider reference was aeronautical rather than a direct translation of the French glisseur which translates more as "slider."

[Mtskull]

Can we therefore write-off the idea that it was destined for a glider application?

I think you will find that the use of the term “glider” in this context is down to a mistranslation of the word “glisseur” and that this is definitely an early airboat propeller.

[Oceandriver]

Hi,

Ok, the last pic shows the entire prop and there is no doubt now that it is a Levasseur pusher (Levasseur from shape and markings geometry, pusher from the side of the hub where the central hole is flared).
As there is no airworthy stamp, it is probably not for anything flying. When Levasseur prop doesn't show airworthy stamp, it doesn't neither show a date around the central hole, but the prop number (30411) give a guess: around 1925 (Levasseur number 29870 is from December 10th 1924 and Levasseur number 32267 is from July 24th 1927).

Engine power is always marked as true power, never "administrative", so it is, effectivly, very low. A pic on the PDF I posted shows a glider with a Levasseur prop fitted on an Anzani engine, but the label tells "80" CV. And as Dave wrote, the hub is quite large for such a small power. Could it be a mismarking (18 for 80) ? As the prop was not "certified" (no airworthy stamp), it is possible. But you can also made a research about a 18 HP glider made by Galvin or Dumond-Galvin around 1925: it seems they made a number of prototypes...

Anyway, it is a very interseting piece of history: don't make any "restoration"!

Best regards,
PM

Just leave it! If you're selling it the new owner might elect to do something gentle or might very much prefer it to stay the way it is. I have a friend who has started collecting early props. Can I put you in touch with him?

Of course Dave, feel free to pass on my email etc. I think you have that from my original contact with you. Cheers, Chris.