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Old 09-15-2019, 04:07 PM   #1
Skyraider3D
 
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Default Looking for origin of Heine 2m80 for 185hp BMW with brass tips

I am trying to find out what plane the attached propeller came from. The hub inscription reads:

185 PS
BMW
D 280
H 180
HEINE
35141(?)

On the reverse it says:

MODEL. B.
NO:51

The first suggests it's a 2m80-diameter Heine propeller for the 185 hp BMW (D.IIIa) engine as used on the Fokker D.VII and C.I. However it has extensive brass tips, so perhaps it was used on a float plane (or airliner) instead. Perhaps the "Model B nr.51" inscription suggests it was the 51st such modification?

According to the seller it came from a Fokker that flew in the Netherlands East Indies in the 1930s and the pilot of this plane is still alive. But attempts to learn more have stalled.

I think this prop was made in 1918, prior to the German surrender in WW1. But perhaps it's later production? Junkers F.13 comes to mind as well. A friend suggested it may come from a Van Berkel WA.

Any help is much appreciated!


PS. Given the excellent condition of this prop, I assume no preservation of any kind is required?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Heine_6249.jpg (94.4 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg Heine_6253.jpg (94.1 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg Heine_6146.jpg (98.1 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg Heine_6154.jpg (98.0 KB, 8 views)

Last edited by Skyraider3D; 09-16-2019 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 09-16-2019, 07:32 AM   #2
Dbahnson
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Others may have some idea of its usage, but German props were often not very specific as to aircraft make and model.

It's possible that an attempt has already been made to "preserve" it. Most Heine propellers before and during WW1 did not have metal sheathing, but even a post WW1 prop should have signs of oxidation on the sheathing. These look to have been recently polished, and perhaps the whole prop was re-varnished.
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Old 09-16-2019, 10:12 AM   #3
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Thank you for your reply. I have attached a couple more photos showing the metal tips better (front and back).

I agree that it does seem to have been varnished, as the wood has a very uniform yellow tone to it.

What do you reckon I could do at this point for optimal preservation and display?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Heine_5668.jpg (98.2 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg Heine_6100.jpg (98.5 KB, 4 views)
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Old 09-16-2019, 11:16 AM   #4
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I would just recommend Bob Gardner's advice to just use high quality beeswax after a light cleaning with mild soap and water - no solvents or abrasives of any kind.

Keep in mind that a propeller that has already been refinished doesn't lose much (or doesn’t lose anything) from being “re-refinished”.
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Old 09-16-2019, 11:38 AM   #5
Bob Gardner
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Greetings Skyraider 3D!

Your prop was made towards the end of 1918 by the propeller Maker HEINE in Berlin for the famous Fokker D VII, often described as the best fighter built in WW1. I have also recorded one made at about the same time as yours, 35441, with the close serial number of 35426. In 1930 the company made its 50,000th propeller.

Mercedes engines of increasing horse-power were used to power the Fok. D VII, from 160ps to 178ps and finally to 185ps and although the diameter of 2800mm remained constant, pitches of 1800, 2100 and 2150mm were used.

Comparatively large numbers of these props survived WW1 in both new and used condition. They were stored in several hiding places designed to out-wit the Inter-Allied Control Commission which got round to inspecting Heine's premises on 19 February 1920.

Your prop appears to be made of elm and ash. Many of those I have recorded are exactly the same colour as yours, and like yours have no witness marks on the hub surface of either bolts or hub plates so I think it likely that yours is in original condition.

Part Two of my series on German WW1 propellers has 43 pages describing Hugo Heine and his propellers.

With kind regards,

Bob
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Last edited by Bob Gardner; 09-16-2019 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 09-16-2019, 12:49 PM   #6
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Thank you for your replies, gentlemen!

Great to hear the prop looks to be in original condition! But I've had another look at the propeller and it seems the serial may actually be 35141 instead of 35441. Does this still place it in the same production range?

I will check out your book! Do you have any sample pages online that I could see please?

I have attached photos of the front and the back of the hub. Especially the back shows the impressions of the hub plates (and some holes from what I assume are previous wall mountings, as well as some wall paint spillage).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Heine_5702.jpg (93.9 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg Heine_5957.jpg (96.5 KB, 9 views)

Last edited by Skyraider3D; 09-16-2019 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 09-17-2019, 07:34 AM   #7
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Skyraider et al,

I have no financial incentive in mentioning Part Two of my German series.

I have sold almost all of my six books which describe British WW1 aircraft propellers and the four books on German WW1 aircraft propellers. I have only four copies of German Part Two left and I thought I would draw this to your attention, which I have now done.

The highest number of any of my books remaining for sale is fifteen, for one of my series on British WW1 Propellers. I have only published this info on this forum with the intention that the last of my books should go to my fellow forumites.

With kind regards,

Bob
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Old 09-17-2019, 08:05 AM   #8
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No worries Bob, I really appreciate that you mentioned it! Detailed information on WW1 wooden props can be hard to find, and your books must represent an absolute treasure trove in this respect. I will contact you via email.
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Old 09-17-2019, 08:16 AM   #9
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Skyraider,

Thank you for pointing out the faint witness marks on the hub, which do suggest that it was fitted to an aircraft. These marks vary between these faint examples to bold and deep marks which leaves the space in the lightening holes a few mm proud, which was caused, I believe, by successive tightening of the prop bolts as advised by Idflieg's Das Propellermerkbuch Der Luftschraube-Abtelilung der Prufanstalt der Fliegertruppen which advised tightening after each flight, and particularly in periods of prolonged dry weather which could cause wood to shrink (and conversely to slacken the bolts in periods of damp weather, and then to retighten correctly.)

If my supposition is correct, one might infer that although fitted to an aircraft, the aircraft never flew, or flew only once.

With kind regards,

Bob
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