Propeller Identification Help Required Please !

[IB76]

My parents own the hub of a propeller turned into a barometer, which has been passed down the family. The only clues I can find are in the picture, which I've hopefully uploaded !

If anyone is able to help identify the make and model of aeroplane it came from, that would be really helpful and much appreciated - the family story is that it originated from a great, great uncle who was a driver for the RFC/RAF during WW1.

Many thanks
Iain

[pmdec]

Hi,

This hub is from a French Chauviere prop which was used on Henri Farman plane fitted with a 80 HP Renault or De Dion engine. "2629" is the serial number (drawing number) and "18220" the prop number (specific to this very prop). The airworthy stamp read EMA which means Etablissement Militaire d'Aviation. The prop was 290 cm long with a 245 cm pitch and a 275 mm blade width. The hub thickness has to be 150 mm with a 70 mm central hole. It was stamped before March 1915.

I will come back with some docs next week when I can access my archives.

Nothing on the opposite side of the hub? It could be interesting!

Regards,
PM

[IB76]

Hi PM,

This is great and much more that I hoped to hear - thanks so much for looking into this. I wasn't sure if the numbers were enough to go on, and proof that there is use for the internet

I have attached photos of the back.

Best regards
Iain

[pmdec]

Hi,

Thanks for the pictures, but that's not the back I was hoping to see, it's the side opposite to the one you showed in your first post (thus, probably the one with the "legs") :

Side I hope to see.jpg

Regards,
PM

[IB76]

Hi PM,

Both me and my brother looked at this and neither of us thought to look "underneath", which is the obvious place to find anything else !

Apologies and new photo uploaded, again, it has the "EMA" stamp, plus "Re.", "MF" and "80".

Regards
Iain

[pmdec]

Hi,

So, the prop was stamped with what you were looking for! Sorry for my typo (Henri vs Maurice): both were making planes at this time, but Chauviere serial 2629 was used on MF 11 (not HF 11 as my memory erroneously said!).

As you have probably understood, "MF" = Maurice Farman, "Re" = Renault and "80" = 80 HP. I join two pics to show that Chauviere props made by Chauviere factory in WW1 and before are easily recognizable because they used stamps with all the letters for "NUMERO" and another with all the letters for "SERIE" and, to my knowledge they were the only ones. This is not true for Chauviere props made by licencees. Below, a serial 1320 from 1912 or 1913.

About the destination of approved propellers, there are two WW1 docs: one French and one American. I post a partial view of the French one which show that Chauviere serial 2629 was approved for use on MF 11 fitted with Renault or De Dion 80 HP engines.

2048_cr_800px.jpg

TableauAffectationChauvi?re(extrait).jpg

140 - 150 is the thickness of the hub, 60-70 the size of the central hole, 8/10 120 and 8/11 150 the bolt circle (8 10 mm holes on a 120 mm diameter circle or 8 11 mm holes on a 150 mm diameter circle), MF 11 or MF 11 bis the destination planes, DB (for De Dion Bouton) or Rt (for Renault) 80 HP engine, "Ecole" for air school (because the list is from 1917 and at that time those planes were no more in use on the battlefield, but yours is probably from 1914 and thus was used on fighters).

Regards,
PM

[IB76]

Hello PM,

This is absolutely fascinating and amazing to learn - thank you so much for being kind enough to research this and share.

I have since been watching MF11 videos on YouTube and it's humbling to think that this was a part of what pushed those aircraft into the sky - looking at their design, it doesn't seem possible !

Would I be right in assuming that because your list is from 1917 that it survived the war in it's training role. It might be that the family story that it was "acquired" from a downed aircraft may have been exaggerating the truth (and who can blame them !) !

Thanks again for all your kind help and best regards
Iain

[pmdec]

Hi,

Yes, in 1917 those planes were only used in air schools. But yours date from the early days of the war and perhaps before, so it is perfectly possible it came from a downed aircraft. Don't forget that two third of the crashes were from accident and only one third from adversary shot! After some family diners, "downed" could be, originally, gone down...

Anyway, it is an historic part. EMA stamps are very rare, because very rapidly replaced by SFA (Service des Fabrications de l'Aviation [militaire]). Roughly less than 1/100 of surviving French propellers before 1922 are EMA stamped (in 1922 SFA airworthy stamping was replaced by Bureau Veritas stamping).

Take care of it!
PM

[IB76]

I most certainly will (irrespective of rarity)

Best regards
Iain