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  • Hi there

    Hi
    I am new here and this forum seems to be a good place for info on props.
    The propel was found here in Denmark
    There are 8 mounting holes,but the base is hollowed(?) out ,presumely to fit a clock
    The propel is marked:
    No 8-347
    100PS
    GNOME
    D 250
    St 200
    TYPE X

    The motor type is there.BUT the plane?
    The French 100ps gnome was used for many airplanes and copied in many countries;England,Germany,USA and even here in Denmark
    I discovered that we (Danish army flying korps) had the AVRO 504,
    and thats the closest i get.

    http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k.../propel005.jpg

  • #2
    ID

    Hi
    Anybody out there
    Just adding another picture,hoping it will ring a bell somewhere!
    Any guesses on the origin of these markings ? German,english,french...?
    Jan

    Comment


    • #3
      Hallo Jan.

      Your prop is German, indicated by PS for horse power and St for pitch. The diameter of 2500mm suggests that it is from a Fokker E type of aircraft. The French Gnome aircraft was only really used just before WW1, mostly by Fokker although most of his designs used the 80ps Gnome rather than the 100ps of your prop.

      I'll do a bit of research.

      With regards,

      Bob
      Bob Gardner
      Author; WW1 British Propellers, WWI German Propellers
      http://www.aeroclocks.com

      Comment


      • #4
        A postscript Jan,

        Please provide a photo of the entire prop, which might help me to identify who made it. Are there any decals or stamps on the prop, for example from Heine or Integral?

        With friendly greetings,

        Bob
        Bob Gardner
        Author; WW1 British Propellers, WWI German Propellers
        http://www.aeroclocks.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Jan,

          I have not made much progress.

          The summary is that the 100ps Gnome, which is a French engine, is rare amongst German Aircraft. It was copied by Oberursel and is much more common in this form as the U I. It powered the Fokker E's, mostly the Fokker EIII, I believe. Both Behrend & Rüggebrecht and Heine made props for this engine with a diameter of 2500mm, but with a pitch of 2200mm, whereas yours has a pitch of 2000mm.

          Type is not a German word. The equivalent is TYP, so the last line of data might read TYP EX, but I have no idea what this means. It is unlikley to mean experimental; in German aviation at this time that would be represented by the letter V for Versuchs.

          How are you getting on with sending me a photo of the complete prop? That might enable me to identify the maker. Are there any other markings on the hub or on the blades?

          With regards,

          Bob
          Bob Gardner
          Author; WW1 British Propellers, WWI German Propellers
          http://www.aeroclocks.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Bob
            Thanks for your post.
            Sorry,no decals or stamps.The prop. was covered in some kind of dark red substance when found in a cellar in Copenhagen ca.1950.
            The red stuff was proberly some kind of preserving,anyway this was rubbed down
            and reveiled no decals.The wood is still in perfect condition,treated with linoil.?
            I agree with your deduction of the markings,it seems to be German.I havent been abble to find anything on danish markings.
            Im not sure about Fokker E-type,didnt it had a Oberursel,the German version of the Gnome ? And the prop. marked as such ?
            I was asuming that the prop was from the Danish Army Flying Korps or the Navy ditto.
            The navys workshops (Orlogsværftet) produced (on licens) both the 7 and 9 cyl.(80/100 PS) versions
            before and after ww1,some of these was used for the navys flying boats.
            http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...maj2005151.jpg
            http://flymuseum.dk/html/flytil1940/...aadMaagen3.php
            I think its likely that "Orlogsværftet" also produced the props or had some Danish factory doing it.
            The army flying korps had the Vickers FB.5 with 80-100 Ps gnome,this is like the flyingboat with the prop. pushing.
            Is it possible to see wich way the prop. was mounted,are markings reads in forward direction?
            Unfortunly the prop has been vandalized for a wallclock,center is hollowed out !!!
            http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k.../propel008.jpg
            No idea of original inner diameter.

            Another candidate is the Avro 504 ?
            http://flymuseum.dk/html/flytil1940/Avro504K.php

            Picture of intire prop.
            http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k.../propel002.jpg

            Heres some pics for those of you who also loves the engines.
            http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...maj2005163.jpg
            http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...maj2005150.jpg
            http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...maj2005156.jpg

            Comment


            • #7
              Jan,

              Many thanks for these additional photographs. Your prop was made by Reschke in Berlin and dates from around 1915. The shape is very distinctive and the serial number, 8347, is close to another Reschke prop that I have seen with a diameter of 2400mm and the serial number 8158 made for the 80hp Gnome.

              Your prop is not from the Avro 504. Gnome powered examples had a diameter of 2740mm and a pitch of 2130mm.

              German props were usually marked to indicate a pusher or tractor prop with the words druck and zug respectively, usually with the abbreviation EDUL which indicates the direction of rotation, anticlockwise. Is there any sign of zug or druck on the prop?

              With regards,

              Bob
              Bob Gardner
              Author; WW1 British Propellers, WWI German Propellers
              http://www.aeroclocks.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Bob
                Hope you dont spent the night reseaching.
                Thanks again.
                Sorry theres no other markings than those on the pic.
                Your proberly right about the shape,it is very distinctive with
                the straight leading egde.
                Do you got any info about Reschke factory ?
                I would like to think the prop was used on the flying boat,the small diameter seem to be perfect.
                Even if the prop is german,this says nothing about the actuel airplane
                Denmark was neutral at the time and imported planes,motors,spareparts from England,France,Germany,....
                The prop could be made for any of the planes using the Gnome 100 PS
                But this is a very good start,i will now try to ask our
                "Teknisk Museum" if they got any records of Reschke.


                I might even take more pics of planes,props and motors,while im there,but im not sure this is the right forum to post them ?
                The Motor and flying-boat pics was taken at "Teknisk Museum" in Helsingør.
                http://www.tekniskmuseum.dk/

                Jan

                Comment


                • #9
                  Jan,

                  Send me an e-mail using the forum link below and I'll send you the details that I have about Reschke.

                  I checked my records and discovered that the other Reschke 80ps Gnome prop came from Denmark as well, from someone who was an engineer with the Royal Danish Air Force at Aalborg. It might perhaps indicate that these 2 props came from an aircraft which initially had the 80ps engine, then later the 100ps.

                  I would be grateful for any photographs of the pre-1920 aircraft props at the Teknisk Museum in Helsingør. Details of the data on them (by photograph) would be wonderful.

                  If any other forumites have WW1 props, I would be grateful for details of them as well, for my database.

                  With regards,

                  Bob
                  Bob Gardner
                  Author; WW1 British Propellers, WWI German Propellers
                  http://www.aeroclocks.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi again
                    WOW! This is great news !
                    Since the 80 ps prop also came from Denmark,its likely that some sort of "import" was present at the time,this may well be another piece in the puzzle ?
                    And yes,most of the aircrafts buildt with the 80 ps was later updated with the 100 ps.So did the flying boats.(Sorry,but Im crazy about them,the woodwork is astonishing,looking better than any furniture ive seen.)
                    More pics:
                    http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...maj2005168.jpg
                    http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...maj2005173.jpg
                    http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...maj2005171.jpg

                    Jan

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Jan,

                      I agree about the wooden hulls of flying boats. There is one at the RAF Museum which is absolutely gorgeous. I feel the same about wooden props. I suspect that my interest is in beautiful wooden artefacts which were built for some functional purpose and almost by accident turned out to be elegant.

                      An afterthought about your prop. Pusher props and seaplane props almost always had brass cladding to protect the tip and leading edge from FOD and seawater, and of course the pilot's maps and pencils, and the navigator if things got really bad! Neither of these props have any brasswork and as a generalisation this makes it very likely that yours is not from a seaplane or flying boat.

                      With regards,

                      Bob
                      Bob Gardner
                      Author; WW1 British Propellers, WWI German Propellers
                      http://www.aeroclocks.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Bob
                        Nice woodwork beats everything.And thats that!
                        My pics of the seaplane shows the brassed tips.
                        Ups! A propeller-detective must notice every detail.
                        The prop do has a reinforced leading egde,allmost black wood,mounted with brass screws.See pic.
                        http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k.../propel007.jpg
                        It is not a pusher,comparing the pics of the 80 ps.
                        To summen up:
                        German PreWW1,Reschke,Fokker m5 ?
                        More pieces to the puzzle.
                        I will now search for info on preww1 planes here in Denmark,military or civil.
                        Jan

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hello Jan,

                          That's an ebony or lignum leading edge intended to provide some slight protection. I have only seen it on Eta props before, I think, and I certainly don't recall seeing it on a Reschke prop. But as ever, I'll go and check my records and data. Might I use this photograph in part III of my book on German WWI props which describes Reschke props, amongst others?

                          Although Fokker used props of much this size on the EIII etc they were generally made by Integral and I have no record of a Reschke prop on a Fokker. My thought that it might be from a Gnome powered Fokker pre-dated our discovery that it was a Reschke prop. I forgot to mention this.

                          Keep in touch and tell me of any discoveries. I'll do a bit of research as well.

                          With regards,

                          Bob
                          Bob Gardner
                          Author; WW1 British Propellers, WWI German Propellers
                          http://www.aeroclocks.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Jan,

                            Another lead, although not entirely convincing.

                            I have found a photograph of the Nielsen og Winther 'Nieuport' type aircraft made in Denmark in my copy of Jane's for 1919. It has a prop that looks very like yours. But the aircraft is said to have a 90hp Thulin engine, which I think was a copy of the Le Rhone engine.

                            One of these aircraft is on show at the Teknisk Museum i Helsingør, where the prop seems to be different from yours but of a somewhat similar shape.

                            I don't think this is the answer but a study of aircraft made by Nielsen og Winther might provide the answer. If we don't discover it ourselves the museum might well have the answer in their records.

                            Bob
                            Bob Gardner
                            Author; WW1 British Propellers, WWI German Propellers
                            http://www.aeroclocks.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Bob
                              Your comment on the leading edge makes my think,the Reinforcement might well be some repair.The leading edge is vunerable when landing in high grass,corn,etc.The tips or hole prop when nosediving.(Very common according to history)
                              And,if its a repair it will explain the lack of any decals,a refurbish would include;cutting,sanding,lacquering...
                              I have seen a pic. of The Fokker III on the net somewhere,with a prop shaped like the Reschke,Though the lamination was more rough (fewer layers) and it seemed to have a very light wood in it.Cant find the pic!?
                              Do you (ore anyone) have some info on when the 100ps.was aviable ?
                              Did Reschke and/or other german prop manufactories,used the name gnome,also for the oberursel version ?
                              Just trying to add some bricks to my puzzle !
                              Jan

                              PS Sorry about my english,hope its clear enough.

                              Comment

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