Graheme White propellor identification

[Dbahnson]

Well, they're in beautiful condition. Thanks for posting them.

[Andy Craven]

Grahame-White propellor identification

Hi, sorry for not following the thread. Attached are a couple of pictures of the decals which I hope help.

My grandfather had this propeller on the wall at home all his life. He joined the RFC and flew as an artillery observer in France for most of 1917 and early 1918 after which he was invalided home, eventually and reluctantly leaving the RFC in late 1919. As we understand it he bought the propeller not long after the war, had the barometer fitted and hung it on the wall where it remained for 50 years. It's moved twice since, most recently onto my wall which explains the two cross-headed bolt heads. He never explained its history, but he didn't talk much about that whole period at all. We've always suspected the propeller had some special appeal. We don't believe he ever flew a plane to which it was attached so it was probably of practical/historic interest to him. He loved flying and might well have been interested in the story of flight. He re-joined the RAF 1940-46.

[pmdec]

Hi Bob,

.../... I'll photograph it when the sun next shines. .../...

Everybody knows that England is a rainy country, and I was just asking myself if one month without sun was normal or if it has to be recorded?


Best regards,
PM

[Bob Gardner]

Glad you enjoyed it!

Bob

[JR44]

Pierre-Michel,

I was worried, having pulled your leg, that you might have taken offence. I'm glad you didn't.

Continuing my parody on European nations, when I was in the British Army, stationed in Germany, I was the chairman of a small NATO sub committee. One of the members was a Luftwaffe officer.

After a few beers at lunch time he asked me if I had noticed that the British and the Germans fought each other at least once every century. I nodded.
'Next time,' he said, 'it is your turn to have the Italians as your allies.'

With kind regards,

Bob

Thanks for the laugh before breakfast.

[Bob Gardner]

Pierre-Michel,

I was worried, having pulled your leg, that you might have taken offence. I'm glad you didn't.

Continuing my parody on European nations, when I was in the British Army, stationed in Germany, I was the chairman of a small NATO sub committee. One of the members was a Luftwaffe officer.

After a few beers at lunch time he asked me if I had noticed that the British and the Germans fought each other at least once every century. I nodded.
'Next time,' he said, 'it is your turn to have the Italians as your allies.'

With kind regards,

Bob

[pmdec]

Oh! Thank you very much for your so kind words, perfide Albion! And, more seriously, I hope we will don't have the opportunity to check this again...

PM

[Bob Gardner]

Pierre-Michel,

It isn't in any of my books. I only bought it a short time ago and that book is seven years old, but the decal on mine is similar to the one on the preceding page. I'll photograph it when the sun next shines.

I agree that the French are superb; your wine and cheeses are magnificent.
And you are excellent at losing, which you did wonderfully at Waterloo, and in 1870 against the Prussians. And you were losing wonderfully in 1914 until we came to help you.

Avec le respect,

Bob

[pmdec]

Hi Bob,

.../... I'll venture to my storeroom and photograph my similar prop, for comparison.../...

Is it the one of the page 33 of your third book? It seems very large and the pitch high: do you know them?

I forgot to answer about stamping errors on French prop: there are none because French are the best at this work*

Regards,
PM

*Oups! Not sure it is true!...

[Bob Gardner]

Greetings Pierre-Michel,

Several of the aircraft which used Green Engines were pushers.

When the latest trans-oceanic storm has finished with us and moved on to La Belle France, I'll venture to my storeroom and photograph my similar prop, for comparison.

With kind regards,

Bob

[pmdec]

Hi,

You seem to be suspicious of the prop? I'm not. I have two props of similar dimensions listed in my database, both recorded in an early British official document. I also own an early Chauvière prop with the same decal, but I must have a look at it to see how the decals are placed on the blades.
.../...

I have to admit that I am somewhat paranoïac... And I can be more: from this picture: https://bit.ly/2OiUfQb the Green 60 HP engine was right handed (the chain is not crossed, the plane is a pusher and then the prop left handed).
The prop of this post is also left handed, then, if it was for a 60 HP Green it was a pusher. And in this case, not only one of the decal is upside down, but both are on the wrong side!

And even more paranoïd, it seems also that under the barometer:
- there is no dust at all,
- the wood looks like it was recently cut,
- the wood has a very pink color like new cut mahogany (from Asia countries?)...
- And what are these two cruciform screws for?

But I will refrain to said it is a fake because I am very impressed by the "font" of the markings which looks exactly as it has to...

Perhaps a "deco thing" made a long time ago with a true prop?



PM

[Bob Gardner]

Well spotted Pierre-Michel. I had not noticed this.

You seem to be suspicious of the prop? I'm not. I have two props of similar dimensions listed in my database, both recorded in an early British official document. I also own an early Chauvière prop with the same decal, but I must have a look at it to see how the decals are placed on the blades.

We are all aware of peculiar mistakes in the data stamped on propellers; the German props most of all. I began to wonder if some German stampers were illiterate. British WW1 props also have errors in the stamped data. But I can't recall any French errors?

With kind regards,

Bob

[pmdec]

Hi,

Waiting for a pic of the the decal on the right wing (right relativly to last pic of the post #3), I will become the "Devil's advocate":

- on the decal pic (post #3), which seems to be the left one from the darker laminations, it will be extraordinary if the varnish was 100 years old,
- both decals seem to have the same orientation (that is, both directly readable on the #3 whole prop pic) whereas one is expected to be upside down,
- from the hub pics of the #6 post, the brown varnish was passed after the installation of the barometer, but the decals are above the varnish.


How can this be if the decals are original?

[Dbahnson]

Thanks and fascinating. By way of further detail, attached are a couple of photos from the hub. Without a caliper, I think the dimensions are:

Hub thickness 4"
Centre bolt 2 1/2"
Bolt size 1/2"
Bolt circle 6 5/8"

Is this at all consistent with your earlier thoughts.

That bolt circle diameter eliminates the Gnome as a possibility, but Bob has already found the more likely engine.

As we frequently see, the hub has been cut out to accommodate the barometer, which is all too common and always a terrible shame with one of these very old artifacts.

[pmdec]

Hi,

@Bob: Sorry, I don't know why there is a B before what seems the prop [why so high?] number.

@Andy Craven: Could you post a pic of the other decal, with the all the blade width visible on the pic?

Regards,
PM