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  • Yazzipops

    I wonder if anyone can throw some light on the provenance of a wooden propeller which has been in my house for fifty years.

    A painted decal says 'Gremont Paris' and the stamp says 'HELIO GREMONT' and what looks like 'PASSAGE BEAUME' making a circle and the word 'PARIS' is in the centre.

    There are eight bolt holes.

    It would be great to know something of its history. Thanks for reading this.

  • #2
    Would you please post pictures? They may prove very helpful.

    Lamar

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi,

      Your prop is a Grémont one.
      Grémont made prop from around 1912, but yours is probably from the WW1 era.
      Three decals are known, the two more often seen are the ones on the picture below.
      The round stamp reads HELICE GRÉMONT 6 Passage Josseaume PARIS.

      What is important to know better your prop is what is stamped on the two round sides AND on the two flat sides of the hub. These markings show for which aircraft and wich engine the prop was made. So, you have to post clear and close up pictures of each of them.
      Il you can't post them directly, you can send them by mail to me (see one of the pictures).
      Other data needed : prop diameter and hub thickness.

      Regards,
      PM
      Last edited by pmdec; 04-17-2019, 10:25 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Gremont propeller

        Here are some pics of the stamps on my propeller, and the bolt holes. It measures 255cm from tip to tip, the hub is 20cm dia and markings on the side of the hub include

        GREMONT DRG No 4 80HP
        G - G - 3 GN 80
        CAUDRON

        also there is a very small square stamp.

        On the other side of the hub there is (I think) D 2600 and what looks like
        P1426.

        I hope this will help you to identify it for me.
        Attached Files

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Yazzipops,

          Your prop seems in excellent original condition and deserves a clear identification.

          The only way to identify the prop is to post pictures of the markings, because they are often difficult to read when you don't know what the markings may be (for instance, the 4 square stamps on the flat side of the hub are French airworthy stamps: so, the letters "DRG" are very surprising, because they are typical of English or American props).

          Serial "numbers" ("DRG") of Grémont props are letters and not digits.

          Try to use the close-up setting of your camera to have neat pictures.

          Regards,
          PM

          Comment


          • #6
            Gremont Wooden Propeller

            Hello PM

            Sorry to take such a long time to reply to your kind e-mail, but I have been away quite a lot and have house guests.

            Here are some better pictures which might help to identify my propeller. Sorry it's such a big file now. I would just love to know its history.

            Thanks and regards

            Yazzipops

            Propeller 1.jpg

            Propeller 2.jpg

            Propeller 3.jpg

            Propeller 4.jpg

            propeller 5.jpg

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Yazzipops,

              Your prop is a Grémont serial CL. This serial was approved in France for use on Caudron fitted with 80HP Gnôme engine for school aircrafts. It is listed in French Army papers and in American Expeditionary Forces papers for this aircraft and engine.

              Its markings made it very interesting, because it has two batches of markings:

              - French ones, including airworthy stamps. They read:
              first side:
              CL – 227 – 2443: serial "number" (CL) and internal use Grémont numbers.
              Under that, a square stamp with the letters SFA (Service des Fabrications de l'Aviation) and the digit 3 which is specific of one of the military controllers.

              other side:
              C – G – 3 – 80 – GN which means the prop was for a Caudron G3 fitted with a 80HP Gnôme engine.
              Under that, another airworthy stamp and the digit 5 which means the prop have been modified and controlled again (by a different controller).
              I think the modification was the additional markings for use in England, but it is only a guess.

              - Additional English (or for English or American use) ones:
              first side:
              D2600
              P1426

              which are the diameter and pitch (in millimeters). They are never stamped on WW1 French propellers because serial number is enough (all props of a given serial number have the same pitch and diameter).

              other side:
              GREMONT
              DRG NO4 80HP
              which means Drawing n°4 80HP
              CAUDRON

              If you look closely at the markings, you will see that the shapes of the digit 4 are different for first (2443) and additional (1426 and NO4) markings. That is the same for the letters C and G. The letters R in GREMONT, DRG and CAUDRON have the same special shape. So, the brand name of the prop (GREMONT) and the brand name of the aircraft (CAUDRON) had been added with the same batch of stamps that DRG.


              Added with its original varnish and decals, these markings make your prop a very interesting piece of history. Keep it like it is. Don't even try to repair the small dents. It is a true beauty.
              According to its numbers and decals, I think it was made in or before 1917*** and this adds some more rarity as more than half of the propellers that survived are from 1918.

              Regards,
              PM

              *** Grémont numbers are not well known.

              PS: I will be very interested by your large pictures files (see my mail address some posts above).
              Last edited by pmdec; 07-23-2012, 07:55 PM. Reason: Add precision about construction date.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hello Guys,

                I'm Benoit, 29 y/o french boy. I love aviation and work as pilot (in belgium cargo airline).
                A friend of my mother offered me many years ago a nice wood propeller.
                Here is the picture. If any experct could give me more info about this propeller, that will be very kind

                size: about 260 Cm * 24 Cm

                Cheers

                Benoit
                Attached Files

                Comment


                • #9
                  one more picture
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Benoit, I think that your propeller is for the same aircraft as the one discussed in the preceeding posts.
                    Dave

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi,

                      Yes Dave, same Grémont serial (CL); same engine and same aircraft!
                      This one is older. Perhaps 1916, possibly 1915. French prop older than 1917 are rare (yet less rare than English ones).
                      This one is in perfect condition. I hope benmicolon will read the Don't restore your prop post (http://woodenpropeller.com/forumvB/showthread.php?t=674)!

                      The stamp reads HELICE GREMONT 6 PASSAGE JOSSEAUME PARIS (Passage is a very narrow street). But, for the same reasons as the first prop, it was probably made in Lyon.

                      Regards,
                      PM

                      Comment

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