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Huge 11-feet prop ID needed

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  • Huge 11-feet prop ID needed

    Hi, has anyone seen a prop like this before? Diameter is 11 feet (335 cm), hub is just over 5" thick (13 cm). A couple numbers embossed on the front (serial and horsepower?) but nothing else. Curiously it has only six bolts. Found in the south-west of the Netherlands.





    Last edited by Skyraider3D; 02-14-2019, 04:27 PM.

  • #2
    It's not common but certainly not unusual. It's hard to identify, particularly since the 6 bolt hole hub eliminates many of the early (WW1 era) engines. Even at 11 feet it's still a little smaller than most of the airship propellers.

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    • #3
      The data block was located.

      142...
      Axial
      Berlin
      120PS D27....
      TP11
      EDUL ZUG (there is that magical word again where nobody knows what it is)

      It was probably not measured correctly.

      Very weird though, to see an Axial propeller with just six holes?

      Last edited by Skyraider3D; 02-14-2019, 04:27 PM.

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      • #4
        My current guess is that it belonged to an Albatros B.II with Argus As II engine.

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        • #5
          "Edulzug" just means tractor propeller (vs. pusher). I presume that you've already figured out that the "PS" refers to horsepower (although stamped HP often doesn't match with currently listed engine HP for many engines.)

          It's unfortunate that we've more or less lost Bob Gardner's input here. He understandably got tired of doing a lot of free research with not even a word of acknowledgment for his efforts from the poster asking the question. I share in his frustration, and we've discussed making this research a paid service instead of a voluntary effort.

          Bob's books on German propellers have a lot of useful information in them, and I'll see if I can find any clues there.

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          • #6
            Thanks very much!
            I too have spent thousands of hours researching aviation stuff for others, I know what you mean.

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            • #7
              EDULZUG, also EDUL ZUG, are the initials of Entgegen Dem Uhrzeiger Lauf which translates as Against-the-direction-in-which-the-clock-hand runs when regarded by the pilot in his cockpit. This is anti-clockwise in English.

              The data appears to read;
              AXIAL The maker
              BERLIN
              120PS This indicates the Mercedes engine designed early in WW1, of 120hp, or the Argus 120ps engine. (The early Benz engine also produced 120hp, but I have no record of Axial making a prop for this engine.)
              D275 Diameter in cm. This is the typical diameter used with the Merc 120ps engine. I have recorded several examples. 270cm equates to ten feet six inches.
              St158 The pitch in cm
              TP 11 Axial's Type number
              11204 or 14204? The serial number. This suggests it was made around 1916.

              I have recorded a 120ps prop made by Axial for the Pfalz E.V, dimensions unknown. I have also recorded a prop of these dimensions made for the Argus 120ps engine, aircraft type not known.

              If anyone can read any of the data better than I have, please let us know.

              With kind regards,
              Bob

              80 minutes of research.
              Last edited by Bob Gardner; 03-02-2019, 10:10 AM.
              Bob Gardner
              Author; WW1 British Propellers, WWI German Propellers
              http://www.aeroclocks.com

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              • #8
                Postscript: six bolt holes were common on early aircraft and are found marked for 100ps and 120ps engines.

                Bob

                1 minute research !
                Bob Gardner
                Author; WW1 British Propellers, WWI German Propellers
                http://www.aeroclocks.com

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bob Gardner View Post
                  With kind regards,
                  Bob

                  80 minutes of research.
                  Awesome, as usual!

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                  • #10
                    Hello Bob,

                    Thank you very much for your digging work and my apologies for getting back to you so slow. I went on holiday in early February and afterwards other things needed my attention.

                    That's wonderful information! Finally an explanation where that mystical EDULZUG word comes from. Is there a similar term for clockwise props?

                    I have looked high and low for the source of this propeller. I am suspecting an Albatros B.II, but that's more a gut feeling than anything concrete. No Dutch internment seems to be a direct match with the prop and location, but the Albatros comes close.

                    Thanks again for your help and time!

                    Ronnie

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                    • #11
                      Hi Ronnie,

                      A belated reply. I have spent much of the last few months in and out of hospital having an op on a damaged vertebrae (L3 for the cognoscenti amongst you) which was caused by an over-enthusiastic British Army helo pilot several decades ago, which eventually caused a latter-day spinal constriction. The op was a success, but I fell a few weeks later, so we went through the process again, with a remedial op.

                      The answer to your question on the opposites of the German EDULZUG (Entgegen dem Uhrzeiger Lauf) which tr. as Against-the-direction-in-which-the hour hand-runs indicating anti-clockwise, are two fold;
                      Clockwise is described in German as MDUL (where M indicates with, as opposed to the letter E indicating Entgegen for against.)

                      [But note that this German terminology refers to the direction of rotation viewed from the front of the aircraft, which is opposite to the British, French and American terminology, which describes the rotation as viewed from behind the propeller!]

                      Variations on this theme are MULZUG, indicating a simplified variation on MDULZUG.

                      And finally MULDRUCK, indicating a pusher prop turning clockwise, a rare occurrence.

                      I do hope you are paying attention. I may ask some questions later to test your comprehension.

                      With kind regards,

                      Bob
                      Last edited by Bob Gardner; 06-26-2019, 01:09 PM.
                      Bob Gardner
                      Author; WW1 British Propellers, WWI German Propellers
                      http://www.aeroclocks.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Bob,

                        Sorry to hear about your health troubles, I hope things are improving again and you're recovering rapidly! The words "over-enthusiastic" and "helo pilot" shouldn't ideally go in the same breath! Yikes!

                        About the props and spinning direction, all noted and makes complete sense! (luckily I understand a bit of German too) - many thanks!

                        Interesting though how viewing directions differ per nation. Similar stuff has happened with throttles (push-pull) with disastrous results. I guess only port and starboard are pretty universal (I half-expect to becorrected! )

                        Thanks very much!

                        Ronnie

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