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AB7031 Siddelely Puma prop

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  • AB7031 Siddelely Puma prop

    New here today, and came across this in an elederly relative's barn. Could anyone kindly help with its identification, age and what type of aircraft it might have been fitted to?
    Attached Files

  • #2
    If the stamped numbers read "AB 7031" it's for a Bristol F2A/B or a DH4 or DH9 with a Siddely Puma engine.

    If not, what are the stamped numbers?
    Dave

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    • #3
      Dave thanks for this - the stamped number is indeed AB 7031. I am advised I also need to find two extremely small G and N numbers the size of my little fingernail plus the initials AID if visible, to tie down where the prop came from.

      I do not intend to 'restore' it but keep as is, maybe rubbing some linseed oil into it, but at 8 feet long it may be a challenge to mount on an internal wall.

      Any ideas at all how much someone would be prpared to buy this kind of prop for?

      Many thanks

      Kerry

      Comment


      • #4
        It's hard to determine value, especially in today's market, and a closer inspection would be needed to get a better idea of condition. A few years ago I would have guessed somewhere in the $1000 to $1500 range, but collectibles values have all dropped considerably since then.

        Where are you located?

        (And yes, don't try to restore it now.)
        Dave

        Comment


        • #5
          Am located in England. I have found a small square on the hub/root of the blade, and am trying to gently clean them to reveal the AID number in the square.

          What would be the reasn for the steep decline in value - has there suddenly been a glut of wooden propellers flooding the market?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Kerry View Post
            What would be the reasn for the steep decline in value - has there suddenly been a glut of wooden propellers flooding the market?
            Not that so much that as an economy that has people saving their money for more necessary items. Collectibles of all types seem to drop significantly during a poor economy. I base this primarily on watching sales of these (and other items) on eBay. It likely will turn around, but exactly when that might occur is anyone's guess.
            Dave

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Kerry,

              I misled you slightly in our earlier correspondence. The AID numbers are small. But the G and N numbers are large, same size as the drawing number, AB7031. These will give the batch number from which I can date the prop. Also look for the diameter and pitch (D and P). I can see on the hub photo HP which is probably preceeded by 200 and followed by Siddeley Puma.

              The DH4, DH9 and Bristol F2B were all powered by the Rolls Royce Eagle but there were not sufficient to go round so many of these airframes were saddled with the unreliable and lower powered Siddeley Puma engine, and others with the FIAT engine.

              Your prop is not worth much because it is close to derelict having dried out in the barn. It is de-laminating. Also the wood wasp has laid its eggs in the soft wood of the prop, walnut, leaving lots of worm holes. And the original fabric which once covered the blades down to the hub has fallen away. I guess that here in the UK it has a value of around five to seven hundred quid.

              With kind regards,

              Bob
              Bob Gardner
              Author; WW1 British Propellers, WWI German Propellers
              http://www.aeroclocks.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Bob,

                thanks for this helpful info. I will go down to my relatives in a few weeks and see if I can find any more numbers to see if we can at least date the prop. Notwithstanding your adviories on its derelict state, I do intned to linseed it and at least clean it up, and stop any further deterioration - then mount it, and try to ascertain its origin and let you know of any new numbers I find on it.

                Thanks again.

                Kerry

                Comment


                • #9
                  Kerry,

                  My advice would be to clean it carefully with warm water and a touch of washing-up liquid. Perhaps two or three bouts of cleaning.

                  Then wax it with pure bees-wax polish. Out of a tin. I think B&Q sell it. Don't use a modern aerosol from Sainsbury's etc which has additives which might cause the wood to bloom.

                  You'll be amazed at how good the prop looks after cleaning and waxing. Re-wax it at monthly intervals two or three times. Fill the worm holes with wax and they will almost disappear.

                  Please post a photo here when you have waxed and polished it so that other forumites can see the transformation.

                  With kind regards.

                  Bob
                  Bob Gardner
                  Author; WW1 British Propellers, WWI German Propellers
                  http://www.aeroclocks.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Bob,

                    I'm sure on this site somewhere it states use only linseed oil and nothing else, especially not polish? Will try to find where I saw that, but will of course defer to your advice nonetheless.

                    Kerry

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Kerry,

                      I think that that is Dave's preference.

                      I find that linseed oil can leave a sticky finish. Perhaps he and I use different types of linseed oil. The first task is to get all the dirt off the prop and that probably includes the remnants of fabric. Warm water and liquid soap will work fine. Then bees-wax will have a beneficial effect. I would agree that commercial polishes with lots of silicones in them would be detrimental but bees wax is fine and safe. It will plug the worm holes, feed the wood and give the prop a sheen. You should wax it once a month for two or three months, although the first wax will transform it.

                      Is the prop North or South of York? If South I'd like to come and see it.

                      With kind regards,

                      Bob
                      Bob Gardner
                      Author; WW1 British Propellers, WWI German Propellers
                      http://www.aeroclocks.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        HI Bob,

                        I will follow your advice to the letter. From 5th August the prop will be at my home very near York. I'll email you at Aeroclock with my mobile number. You are most welcome to come up from your location once it is delivered safely to mine, then you can see it before I start work on it. Not keen on removing bits of fabric - isn't that part of the original 'real estate' and therefore altering it from its original condition in some way?

                        Yours Aye

                        Kerry

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks Kerry. I'd much like to see it. I might be able to read the data having had lots of practice in squinting!

                          There is an argument in favour of leaving the fabric as it is. But if it is fragile and falling off, which seems to be the case with your prop, there is also an argument that it will look better removed where the beauty of the wood is visible. Of course, if your prop was of particular historic interest it would be important to leave the fabric alone as a reference for future historians.

                          Any thought of restoration is always fraught with contradictions which is why we on this site advise against it. But cleaning and waxing it is conservation which will increase its life.

                          per ardua,

                          Bob
                          Bob Gardner
                          Author; WW1 British Propellers, WWI German Propellers
                          http://www.aeroclocks.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks Bob - you make a very valid point about restoration versus conservation. I'll certainly follow your guidance and gently wash it then give it a coat of beeswax applied from a tin. I'll keep what little fabric there is on it at this stage, because it is after all an original component of the propeller, even if little of it remains - it still has a historical entitlement to be there, as it were.

                            Ad Astra

                            Kerry

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              That's the best course of action.

                              ad terra,

                              Bob
                              Bob Gardner
                              Author; WW1 British Propellers, WWI German Propellers
                              http://www.aeroclocks.com

                              Comment

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