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  • Help needed for propeller identification

    Hello!
    I'm from switzerland and we bought a propeller at a flee market.
    With the help of your beautiful site and some other french ones, we figured out this propeller was on le Rhône 80hp engine.
    Hub is 100 mm thick , some indications are difficult to read on it.We have on one side ot the hub:

    BM.85127.BM
    8.12.18

    on the other side:
    NI B RH80
    D250
    PV 180 200
    DIS 010

    (some pictures are on the way)

    We think it might be a Grémont propeller for Caudron G6 or G4.
    Many thanks for your help and regards from Switzerland
    Hélène

  • #2
    Bonjour Hélène,

    Bienvenue à notre forum et merci de vos mots aimables.

    I think that you are correct in that the prop is from the 80hp le Rhône and I think the diameter and pitch will be 2500mm and 1800mm. And 8.12.18 is very likely the date of manufacture, or possibly the contract date.

    These markings don't seem to be in the usual French style. I think they might be Dutch. I have seen pitch described as PV before but can't remember from which country. It's not an English, French or German notation.

    Pierre-Michel is our resident French expert and he is the best man to advise us. In the meantime I'll look up my French tables to see what I can discover.

    Avec le Respect,

    Bob
    Bob Gardner
    Author; WW1 British Propellers, WWI German Propellers
    http://www.aeroclocks.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi,

      I am far to be the "expert" Bob said! THE expert is him! I am just trying to learn about French propellers markings, and it is not an easy thing. I will do my best to help you, but too often I can't give a precise identification.

      First, what make you think it is a Grémont? Is there a decal? You can see one there: http://www.woodenpropeller.com/Gremontdecal_152x114.jpg

      Props dimensions are very precise and can give a way to identification. You have to accurately measure:
      - Diameter from tip to tip (be sure blades are intact)
      - Hub thickness very precisely (there are 93, 95, 96, 100, 103 and 105 mm around 100).
      - Diameter of central bore
      - Number of bolts holes and diameter of the circle where centers of these holes are.
      - Maximum blade width (measure done perpendicularly to the blade axis).

      Markings:
      If the prop was used on a French aircraft between 1914 and 1919, it has to have SFA stamps: they are small squares with the letters SFA inside. Generally, there are three on one of the flat sides of the hub and one on one of the round sides (sometimes on both).
      Also, try to read the numbers stamped on the flat sides of the hub.

      As Bob said, RH80 is a code for Le Rhône 80 HP engine. But I don't see any code matching Caudron. Instead, "NI B" could be code for a Nieuport, but there are no Grémont propellers for Nieuport in the tables I have.

      So, we have to wait for measures and pictures before going forward. If you have trouble posting pictures, you can send them to Bob or to me (ask for email by PM) and I'll post them.

      Regards,
      PM

      PS1: PV 180 200 may be a marking for "variable pitch" (French "pas variable"). In this time "variable pitch" did not mean the pitch could be changed, but that the pitch was not constant along the blade. If that is this, it is the first time I see the abbreviation "PV". Those I saw were just marked with two numbers.

      PS2: I have no access to my "books" until November 12 ...

      Comment


      • #4
        Hello Bob!
        Many thanks for your answer, I m in contact with the french expert...and as we both speak french it makes things a little easyer.
        Have a very nice day
        Hélène

        Comment


        • #5
          Nieuport BB

          Hi,

          I'am agree with Pierre-Michel for Nieuport. It could be the BB Nieuport, which was powered by a 80 HP Le Rhone.

          - first B, for biplan
          - second B, for fighter

          I will be interested to see some pics.

          Regards

          Eric

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by helene View Post
            NI B RH80
            Could this in fact be simply "NIE RH80", rather than "NI B RH80"? "NIE" was frequently used to designate Nieuport aircraft.
            Dave

            Comment


            • #7
              Nieuport

              It could be the 'Nieuport X B".

              But it was born at th begining of the war.

              With this hypothesis, it is difficult to consider the 8.12.18 as the manufacturing date????

              Here are some 2m50 diameter, propellers which seams to be used for this plane

              Régy: sérial 310 / Pitch 195
              Régy: sérial 155 / Pitch 190
              Régy: sérial 264 / Pitch 190
              Régy: sérial 235 / Pitch 190
              Chauviere: sérial 2219 / Pitch 195

              It will be very interested to have some pics of the propller...

              Eric

              Comment


              • #8
                Hélène and Pierre-Michel,

                Have you any news on this prop for us?

                Eric

                I too often find a prop dated, say, 1917, for an aircraft that flew in 1913 or 1914, such as an Albatross Taube or a BE2A and I tend to search for some other explanation for the date but I have come to the conclusion that only three years separate 1914 and 1917 and that these obsolete aircraft were relegated to training schools or kept on RNAS stations etc as the station hack; so, they still needed replacement props.

                With kind regards,

                Bob
                Bob Gardner
                Author; WW1 British Propellers, WWI German Propellers
                http://www.aeroclocks.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hello everybody!

                  First .... many thanks for your help...
                  I' ve problems in publishing the pics on the site...If I could have an e-mail adss. That would make things easyer.
                  For sure it's NI B written on the hub.
                  Regard
                  Hélène

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Adress mail

                    hélène bonjour,

                    Voici mon adresse mail, e.mattutini@wanadoo.fr, si vous pouvez me faire passer les fichiers, j'essaierais de les faire paraitre sur le site.

                    Merci par avance

                    Eric

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi,

                      There are pictures Hélène sent to me (I am waiting for more):




                      It is sure propeller shape is very similar to this Grémont which was posted in a French forum ( http://www.passion.cocardes.info/vie...pid=1637#p1637 ) but pictures seems "lost". I have copied them and this is one of them:



                      I hope she will send markings of the other side and those of the two flat sides. Anyway, it doesn't seem to have SFA stamps, but a round "DT?" stamp. Any body knowing this ?

                      Markings Hélène wrote in her first post "BM.85127.BM" might be serial BM, as Grémont have those kinds of serial markings, but I have not this BM nor in French listings, nor in American ones (there are some Bx and there is a CM, but not a BM).

                      There are two big bolt holes I never seen before.

                      Regards,
                      PM

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        And there is a more detailed picture of the bolts holes I can't post with other pictures (4 picts limitation) :

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thank you, Pierre-Michel, for posting these photographs for us to see!

                          Bob
                          Bob Gardner
                          Author; WW1 British Propellers, WWI German Propellers
                          http://www.aeroclocks.com

                          Comment

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