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  • #1

    Heine propeller identification

    L.S.

    I recently bought a propeller. It has the following markings:
    Near the boltholes: Hil-NL.3533 D280-H210 .

    In the center of the propeller the following:
    160
    BEC
    D 280
    H 210
    HEINE
    E35268
    D VII

    I've received the following information when I bought it.

    It was manufactured by Heine, productionnumber 35268
    The propeller was probably on a Mercedes Benz engine (160HP).
    Aeroplane type: Fokker D VII.
    The propeller Probably made in 1920.

    The thing is however that the propeller isn't 280 cm, as you would expect it to be,but 254 cm. so it's definitely shortened (nicely done by the way).

    My questions are the folowing:
    1. Is the above data correct?
    2. Why is the propeller shortened? Was it common that a propeller like this was shortened to 100 inch to fit on another engine/aeroplane or the alter the capabilities of the plane?
    3. When you tap on it, it almost sounds hollow, is it?

    Thanks for sharing any information with me.

    And of course I've added some photo's .

    Best regards,

    Michael Brouwer
    The Netherlands
    Attached Files
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  • #2
    Usually the shortening is done because of damage to a single tip and an attempt to make it look "normal" again.

    There's no way it should be hollow.

    I'm not sure about the authencity of the aircraft usage, but it's not uncommon for a propeller to be passed on with information that is incorrect. There were thousands of different propeller shapes and sizes, and they all look about the same.
    Dave

    Comment

    • #3
      Goedemorgen Michael,
      Onthaal aan ons forum. Het is goed om van een Nederlander te horen!

      All the data etc is mostly correct.
      160 indicates 160ps, the hp of the engine
      BEC is MERC for the Mercedes engine, in this case the Mercedes DIIIa

      For some reason the data stamped on later Heine props was very often poorly done. Often the letter N in the word Heine was stamped upside down, leading me to suspect that the stamper was illiterate. It might also indicate the discontent that was widespread in Germany in 1917 and 1918.

      At the end of the war the Allied Control Commission ordered all German military equipment to be destroyed. For propellers this was often done by sawing 15 cms or so off one blade tip. This might have happened to yours leading to it being later reshaped. Equally, as Dave says, it might have been reshaped to remove tip damage.

      The serial number of 35268 is a 1918 number. The last 35xxx serial number that I have found is 35982 on a DFW CVa powered by a NAG 185ps engine. The earliest post war serial number is in the 37xxx series.

      Met vriendschappelijke groeten,

      Bob
      Bob Gardner
      Author; WW1 British Propellers, WWI German Propellers
      http://www.aeroclocks.com

      Comment

      • #4
        Thanks

        Hi Bob,

        Thanks for 'het warme welkom' on the propeller forum.

        I always wonder where (I presume someone from Britain) has learned Dutch?

        Thanks for sharing your information.

        So, it is from a Fokker D VII then. I read on Wikipedia that even the Dutch have flown these airplanes (I'm soon going to visit one in the airforce museum nearby).

        The reason for shortening is then either tipdamage or sawing off one tip as an outcome of the war. I presume that, in both cases, the propeller hasn't flown ever since.

        Since it was of a Fokker D VII, I suppose it's quite a common one. Always curious If there's an estimated value for this propeller?

        I paid quite some money for it, but I think it looks great in my living room.

        Already thanks for responding.

        Hartelijke groeten,

        Michael Brouwer.

        Comment

        • #5
          Thanks for the information Dave.

          Greetings,

          Michael Brouwer

          Comment

          • #6
            Michael,

            I used to be in the British Army in Germany and liaised once a month with the Dutch MOD in den Haag; and shopped in Venlo and Eindhoven; and travelled through the Netherlands a million times (or so it seems) on my way to and from England. Also the Army squadron that I commanded was at Arnhem in 1944 (before I was born!) and I take part in the annual pilgrimage to Arnhem every September. But although I can write some elementary Dutch you won't be surprised to know that I am not brave to try speaking it!

            Fokker D VII props are about the most sought after of WW1 German props and I have only ever seen two, so you have done well to find one.

            With kind regards,

            Bob
            Bob Gardner
            Author; WW1 British Propellers, WWI German Propellers
            http://www.aeroclocks.com

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by Bob Gardner View Post
              Michael,

              I used to be in the British Army in Germany and liaised once a month with the Dutch MOD in den Haag; and shopped in Venlo and Eindhoven; and travelled through the Netherlands a million times (or so it seems) on my way to and from England. Also the Army squadron that I commanded was at Arnhem in 1944 (before I was born!) and I take part in the annual pilgrimage to Arnhem every September. But although I can write some elementary Dutch you won't be surprised to know that I am not brave to try speaking it!

              Fokker D VII props are about the most sought after of WW1 German props and I have only ever seen two, so you have done well to find one.

              With kind regards,

              Bob
              Hi Bob,

              Thanks for replying. What a coincidence. I used to work for the MOD in The Haque. Started of as a Army officer (KMA) a long time ago and now working as a civilian in the support branch.

              Glad to hear I did well.

              When you're in the center of Holland don't hesitate to come over and see the third one on your list with your own eyes.

              By the way, I tried to visit your website (interested in buying your book) but it seems to be off line. I tried to visit the site with both Mozilla and Explorer but didn't succeed.

              kind regards.

              Michael.

              Comment

              • #8
                Hallo Michael,

                I was in HQ BAOR from 1983-1985 in the Transport Branch and amongst other Dutch officers, I worked with Major Thom at the time that David Bowie sang 'Ground control to Major Tom' which he took with good humour!

                I just looked at my website and it's up and running. If you can't get to it, tell me which book you want.

                Met hartelijke groeten,

                Bob
                Bob Gardner
                Author; WW1 British Propellers, WWI German Propellers
                http://www.aeroclocks.com

                Comment

                • #9
                  visit website

                  Hi Bob,

                  BAOR, sound to me like the old days. I'm 43, but raised in the cold war era and visited Germany frequently on exercise.

                  Just tried another PC and two more browsers, but I couldn't get to the website.
                  Then I tried another provider (at my parents) and the link worked.

                  I saw you wrote a book on German WWI Props, but I can't make out whether I can order it, or just the CD-book. I'm looking for an easy readable one on WWI propellers (what else would you expect).

                  By the way I was startled by the price of the Wotan Prop of the D VII, of course it is original in length, but still.

                  Hope to hear from you.


                  Greetings,

                  Michael
                  Last edited by M. Brouwer; 11-08-2009, 01:01 PM. Reason: spelling / extra information

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